IRAQ poll

[Spiral]

After reading about the latest attack which has left 71 dead i wonder when is britain and america going to wake up and realise that we are not capable of helping these people.

These people are dieing because of the wests arrogance that we can bring peace and democracy to these people when in reality saddamn was doing a better job.

Since we've occupied iraq almost 50,000 thousand iraq's have died when i say 50,000 im using that as a rough figure depending on who you speak to some claim it may even be higher.

So i ask who is going to accept the responsibility for this?

Tony blair should resign and if it was up to me arrested for using our countrys military to destabilize a foreign country and creating a civil war leaving 10's of thousands dead.
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[colin1]

we need another poll option

yes it was a mistake to invade and destabilise a stable country thinking we could having it running the way we wanted quickly, but it would be wrong to pull out as there would be a blood bath of a civil war.
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Visitor Q]

We've already done the hard part (ie political backlash).

Might as well try and make something out of it.

Sucks america have somewhat forgot us from the redevelopment.
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[Spiral]

America is too busy too worry about iraq's redevelopment.

The propaganda machine has now set its target on iran, the white house is already planning a premptive strike on iran.

At the same time the american people are being told by President George Bush who views Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as a "potential Adolf Hitler"

"This White House believes that the only way to solve the problem is to change the power structure in Iran, and that means war"

Also the pentagon recently updated its premptive strike options to include nuclear weapons.

Im sure it will only be a matter of time before the whitehouse approves this.

If anything george bush is the new hitler.
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****NORTHERN IRELAND NEWSFLASH!!**** According to a recent survey, 94% of loyalists said the best sex they ever had was in the shower; the other 6% haven't been to jail yet.***

[colin1]

I dont believe that america will use nuclear weapons.

I dont believe they will invade Iran in the next few years.

With Iraq they had been bombing it everyday since the first gulf war and had imposed sanctions on it weakening it.

America might bomb Iran but they wdnt invade until they had weakened it by bombing and sanctions first.

They have some sanctions in place but they would need more, and would need to bomb it for a while first.

They also need to sort out Iraq first. Thats why Iran is trying to make sure that Iraq stays chaotic for as long as possible.
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[carlnicholson...]

[killa]

Does all this seem to tie in with what that Notradamus predicted, the two sides causing hate and then eventually biological and nuclear war fare…
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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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[zaknafien]

US dismisses Iran attack claims.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4894766.stm
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02 Firestorm.

[Suzuki]

[G]

Pulling out now would just make the situation even worse, I suspect.
The damage is done, lets try and make the least bad out of a bad situation.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Another vote for we screwed the country up, and the least we can now do is try and stop it getting worse even if it cost us large numbers killed and a lot of money.

All the best

Keith
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[Spiral]

carlnicholsony2k for your info though why i should bother to educate you is any ones guess as you insult me when you have no reason too.

My information comes from the washington post and the above quote comes from a white house representative and not some guy from the net.

But you can find this info in the times and guardian hell even our own jack straw has tryed to play down the comments.

Fact is though the pentagon has applied to the american senate to have its first strike capability upgraded to include nuclear weapons.

You say "military intelligence and plans of attack are not public knowledge"

Is that some sort of joke? is this the same military intelligence that claimed saddamn had weapons of mass destruction?

Is this the same plans of attack that were broadcast world wide weeks before the war in iraq even began?

I wouldn't bother to reply if your gonna try and defend the current american administration or even tony blair just when america invades iran come here and let me go 'told ya so'

Pentagon Revises Nuclear Strike Plan
Strategy Includes Preemptive Use Against Banned Weapons

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, September 11, 2005;

The Pentagon has drafted a revised doctrine for the use of nuclear weapons that envisions commanders requesting presidential approval to use them to preempt an attack by a nation or a terrorist group using weapons of mass destruction. The draft also includes the option of using nuclear arms to destroy known enemy stockpiles of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons.

The document, written by the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs staff but not yet finally approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld

In Washington it is hardly a secret that the same people in and around the administration who brought you Iraq are preparing to do the same for Iran. The Pentagon, acting under instructions from Vice President Dick Cheney’s office, has tasked the United States Strategic Command (STRATCOM) with drawing up a contingency plan to be employed in response to another 9/11-type terrorist attack on the United States. The plan includes a large-scale air assault on Iran employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons. Within Iran there are more than 450 major strategic targets, including numerous suspected nuclear-weapons-program development sites. Many of the targets are hardened or are deep underground and could not be taken out by conventional weapons, hence the nuclear option. As in the case of Iraq, the response is not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States. Several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning are reportedly appalled at the implications of what they are doing—that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack—but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objections.
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[carlnicholson...]

[carlnicholson...]

Seriously spiral, I wasn't trying to insult you, if it came across that way, then I do apologise, that was not my intention.

Believe me, I am in no way supporting either Bush or Blair. I was in a Tornado Sqn at the time of the start of the war, and saw all the fuck ups made first hand. I do believe that something had to be done, but they have done it all wrong in my opinion. I don't want any confusion over that, I do not support either of them, and will be voting against Blair this time. (As I did last time.)

If the American government has made that sort of information public knowledge, then I stand corrected. I am surprised by that, as it is not something that would help it's aims in my opinion. Yes, at the start of the war, a lot of information was released, but that was used as propaganda and simple PR, in a bid to sway the public opinion. Releasing information to the public of it's intentions to prepare the use of nuclear force is not often a good thing, and something that isn't normally released.

However if this is what they have done, and if your quote is correct it would appear that they have, then I am wrong.



P.S. I require little education on western politics, and the situation in the middle east. I had numerous briefings in the run up to the war from government intelligence officers during the war preparation. As biased as that information probably was, it was based on facts. Like I said, I will be voting against Blair this time.
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"THOSE WHO RISK NOTHING, DO NOTHING, ACHIEVE NOTHING, BECOME NOTHING."

[Spiral]

[carlnicholson...]

It may just be a method of scaring the Iranian government into submission. Even if it is, I doubt it will have any effect what so ever.

They way the typical American troops 'gung ho' attitude has fucked up proceedings in Iraq would have rendered any threats of force from the US completely useless, and seemingly comical.

It is concerning that Iran MAY have a nuclear potential, but even more concerning that the US uses their's seemingly at a whim. I firmly believe that the US would use a nuclear force if it deemed it necessary, and the current actions of the US would suggest that they don't require much provocation to start proceedings.

The Iranian situation has a serious potential to turn very nasty, more so then the ongoing saga in Iraq. The reason that Jack Straw is playing down concerns may be his way of trying to stop the situation from boiling over. Remember, anything he says publicly is considered and written before hand, and may not be what they are doing, but simply what they want the world to hear.

I, for one, will be keeping my eye on it, as I'm not happy about the way it's going.
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"THOSE WHO RISK NOTHING, DO NOTHING, ACHIEVE NOTHING, BECOME NOTHING."

[Spiral]

Its is very concerning that iran one day will have the ability to build a nuclear bomb, i would not want to see them do this but at the same time i don't belive anyone in the west has the right to deny them nuclear power, they still maintain it is only for energy though.

So britain finds itself between two dubious countrys the americans who have already lied to us and the iranians who have yet to prove that they are truly committed to peace.

The reason the us is talking about using nuclear tactical weapons is that the iranians have been busy building underground bunkers and facilitys that apparently conventional weapons are unable to destroy.

I think the war will come wether we like it or not as iran will continue to develop nuclear power and will not stop no matter how much the international community protests, america will still think there building a bomb and the united nations will inspect the plants file reports and largely be ignored.
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[carlnicholson...]

Thats about right, the UN are just an inconvenience to the US. There we see that 'gung ho' attitude of theirs again.

It's a scary scenario, and it's becoming alarmingly real. I just hope it doen't lead to a nuclear stand off. The only way the cold war was solved and nuclear strikes averted was through patience, careful and considered actions and a cautious approach.

The American government are seemingly blessed with none of the above qualities. It's worrying.
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"THOSE WHO RISK NOTHING, DO NOTHING, ACHIEVE NOTHING, BECOME NOTHING."

[G]

[Spiral]

I've followed american history and politics closely for many years and still i (and others) can not understand how a nation that came out of world war 2 as a great nation has degenerated into what can only be described as an international bully.

By the mid to late 50's america had became obsessed by communism and almost 50 years on the various administrations are still creating enemys for america, well mostly enemys who are not actually a real threat to america.

Its even more annoying to see america accuse other countrys of pursuing secret weapon projects when their entire economy depends on some sort of on going conflict to keep the big military businesses in the black.

G i totally agree with what your saying, america is only making the entire situation worse and the fact that there is claims (not fact as of yet) that the americans are working covertly on the ground in iran with rouge groups preparing to paint military targets can only serve to hamper any sort of negotiation the UN can have with the iranian government
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****NORTHERN IRELAND NEWSFLASH!!**** According to a recent survey, 94% of loyalists said the best sex they ever had was in the shower; the other 6% haven't been to jail yet.***

[carlnicholson...]

Simple solution, McGee, come back here, we're blowing the fucking place up.
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[Visitor Q]

Gotta say though, the thought of staunchly islamic countries having nukes scares the shit out of me.

The whole MAD principle doesnt seem to scare them.
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From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...

[Mister James]

[carlnicholson...]

[craigie b]

Ok, I'm to tired to be posting in depth or concisely so fuck it... a few points about what I think:-

1. Iran is wanting Nuclear weapons. Their statements saying otherwise is merely a ploy by their governmnet to appeal to western citisens who watch the news so we take side with Iran...i.e. what harm could the little turban fellas when all they want is cheap electricity.

They want some nukes and they have a track record of saying one thing and doing something else.

2. I don't think Iran should have nukes

3. The US probably will strike at Iran...How, I do not know but you can rest assured the Bush admin isn;t going to publicly announce this so their quiet stance over media reports is only to calm people.

4. The nukes....TBH, I wouldn't put it past them if they thought they could justify the use of tactical nukes, but they would be setting a horrific presidence to other nuclear nations and that could potentially be fecking horrific...So hopefully no nukes.

5.Its very convenient that the UK has a massive para deployment in southern Afghanistan. Borders right on Iran. The only thing that stops me from concluding they are their for hitting at Iran is the fact they would be invading from a country that is extremely hostile anyway...

my thought