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883iron |
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883iron L Plate Warrior
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arry |
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arry Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:04 - 23 Nov 2022 Post subject: |
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883iron |
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883iron L Plate Warrior
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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883iron |
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883iron L Plate Warrior
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doggone |
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doggone World Chat Champion
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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883iron |
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883iron L Plate Warrior
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dave001 |
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dave001 Banned
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Zen Dog |
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Zen Dog World Chat Champion
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Posted: 23:21 - 23 Nov 2022 Post subject: |
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For the first exit, indicate left (and if there were 2 lanes, left lane).
For the second exit, indicate left after passing the first exit (and if there were 2 lanes, left lane).
For the third exit, indicate right, and indicate left after passing the second exit (and if there were 2 lanes, right lane, moving into the left lane after passing the second exit).
There are roundabouts in the UK where the highway code is a bit ambiguous (for example, where the first exit is more than 180 degrees around), but this isn't one of them really. On the other hand, sometimes people just treat particular roundabouts in a strange way. There is one near me where you should definitely be in the right hand lane to to take a particular exit, but everyone uses the left lane. No idea why. So if this roundabout is one of those, it's probably easier to just go with it. ____________________ Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011 |
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Keithy |
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Keithy Spanner Monkey
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883iron |
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883iron L Plate Warrior
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xX-Alex-Xx |
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xX-Alex-Xx World Chat Champion
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Capt Sisko |
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Capt Sisko Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 22 Jan 2022 Karma :
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Posted: 21:27 - 02 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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Zen Dog wrote: | For the first exit, indicate left (and if there were 2 lanes, left lane).
For the second exit, indicate left after passing the first exit (and if there were 2 lanes, left lane). |
Correct
Zen Dog wrote: | For the third exit, indicate right, and indicate left after passing the second exit (and if there were 2 lanes, right lane, moving into the left lane after passing the second exit). |
Completely wrong and frankly, bloody dangerous.
By indicating right you are telling other road users you are turning right. In this case you are not, you're going straight ahead, in at 6 out at 12. It would not be unreasonable for a vehicle to assume you were in fact wanting to turn right and to try and come past you on your left if there was enough space. Ditto if there was a vehicle waiting in exit 1 or 2. They would think you're turning right, so they nip out and by the time you've got to your exit you've go no place to go. Just because their aren't white lines painted on the road doesn't mean people won't try to make it into two lanes! And remember you're the one who's going to come off worse in a argument about road space.
If I'd done what is being suggested I'd have failed my IAM test on the spot. Indicating is part of the TUG system. 'Take - Use - Give' and if you give out misleading information, don't blame others if they interpenetrate it incorrectly.
The correct procedure is to not indicate as you approach the roundabout, stay left of centre so you are commanding the road position, keep to that position and as you pass exit 2 indicate left, safety check if needed and turn off the roundabout at exit 3 in a suitable gear accelerating smoothly. Section 186 of the HC is quite clear on this. It states you should only indicate right or to use the RH lane if you are turning right or going full circle. In this case you are not, you are going straight ahead. The advice for taking intermediate turns is also quite clear. Stay in the appropriate lane and indicate as described.
HOWEVER. If there isn't any other traffic around it isn't unreasonable to 'straight line' the roundabout. i.e. enter left, almost clip the roundabout and exit left. Minimal flicking left & right, maximum speed & grip. BUT it relies on extra checks, good visibility and awareness. Best not to do it unless your are an IAM Masters, but by the time you've got to that point, I won't say different rules apply, but there are certain expectations associated with as they say 'making progress' (or as we say, how to ride fast without getting pulled over).
One last comment, if your current instructor isn't up to it, dump him. That might sound unfair, but you're paying good money for is expertise and it sounds to me like he's not passing that on. It might also be worth getting an assessment from another instructor. If your current is letting you down in one way, maybe he's letting you down in others. |
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Zen Dog |
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Zen Dog World Chat Champion
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Posted: 17:07 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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Capt Sisko wrote: | By indicating right you are telling other road users you are turning right. In this case you are not, you're going straight ahead, in at 6 out at 12. |
That's where we disagree. I think you should be indicating right because you ARE turning right. But whether you think it's a straight on, or a right turn, depends on what you use to determine the "6" position , and the exit position, on the clock.
If you use "the point at which, having the centre of the roundabout as the clock face, the centre of the dotted line of the entry lane" as the "6" position, and "the point at which the centre of the exit lane leaves the roundabout" as the exit position, as I assume you are, then you are correct. See below.
https://i.imgur.com/qiV63Scl.png
But using that definition means that most roundabouts that road users would regard as having a "straight on" exit are not in fact, straight on (even though they clearly are). Under this definition, they're left turns, because they're actually more like "6 to 11". See below (ignoring that in this example straight on is also the first exit).
https://i.imgur.com/BIedW4Gl.png
But another way of defining the entry "6" position is "the point at which the general direction of the entry road (not lane) intersects the roundabout" and the exit as "the general direction that the exit road (not lane) intersects the roundabout". This is a much less prescriptive but also more intuitive definition, since you can usually determine "clock position" well before actually reaching the roundabout dotted entry line in most cases. It also makes "straight on" exits much more actual "6 to 12", as I think most people would expect. See below.
https://i.imgur.com/cXWajhkl.png
And using this definition also makes our original example a right turn with the exit at about 1 o'clock. Another way to imagine this is to see the roundabout as an almost perfect 5 pointed star. And if you cut a 5 pointed star down the middle you'll have two points on the left and two on the right. As such, you can view the roundabout as having 2 left exits and 2 right exits, no matter which entry road you use. See below.
https://i.imgur.com/KsKdddKl.png
This would be the kind of matter of opinion you could argue about all day. But of course, I'm not IAM qualified and my take on this is "completely wrong and frankly, bloody dangerous". This is an IAM test failing matter! So clearly this isn't a matter of opinion. Can you show me where in the Highway Code it explains exactly how (without signs etc.) you can determine if something is a right turn on a roundabout or not, so I can correct the error of my ways? https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.html ____________________ Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011 |
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883iron |
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883iron L Plate Warrior
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UncleFester |
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UncleFester World Chat Champion
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 1 year, 160 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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