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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 18:08 - 04 Oct 2023 Post subject: Forcing people to stop smoking |
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I seem to remember a discussion when NZ put forward this idea of increasing the age you can buy cigarettes until no one can. Well now Sunak has jumped on the bandwagon.
Smoking age should rise from 18, by one year every year - Rishi Sunak
I suppose it's logical as there is absolutely no up side to smoking. However it sort of sticks in my craw as another personal choice being removed.
I used to smoke like a chimney - 40 to 60 a day but I used to have a few puffs and put the fag in an ashtray and forget about it so actually wasn't smoking any where near that much and fags were cheap as chips at sea. I gave up because I stopped enjoying it.
So should we as a country do this? Is the health issues worth dispensing with the freedom issues or if we had known what we know now, would smoking have ever been allowed?
The cost I gather is not an issue as the amount of tax on fags far exceeds the cost to the NHS although I doubt they see much of it.
Would it be the precursor to other ways to ban things that aren't good for you or is it perfectly justifiable that big brother takes a bigger interest in your personal habits and vices?
I personally am not happy with it but I can't argue against the facts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67008051 ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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Freddyfruitba... |
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Freddyfruitba... World Chat Champion
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 19:11 - 04 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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I think it makes sense and as a former smoker, I think it would have been better if it was never allowed. Probably would never have started if you hadn't been able to smoke in pubs, clubs, cinemas etc. anyway.
While I was initially against the smoking indoors ban, I now think it is a good idea, going for a fag is now a pain in the arse for the smoker, not the non smoker. Most of the social aspect of it's gone and it's hard to see why anyone would start now.
They are proposing effectively making it so if you were ever legally allowed to buy tobacco, you still are. If you've never been allowed to buy tobacco, you never are. So nobody who's been addicted to something we can all admit is very harmful while it was legal to do so is put in a position of not being able to get it. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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struan80 |
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struan80 World Chat Champion
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 20:31 - 04 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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I don't like or trust this idea one bit.
First, if it's really about public health, why won't he state what he considers to be an acceptable lifespan? Why is it a hush-hush "do not resuscitate" sort of deal when the aged end up in hospital? The problem is, there is no actual point in being 90+, for most people. Some people may want that, or think they want it, but it's just not nice or fun. I think most people recognise that. Everyone dies of something, so it's about time someone had the balls to come up with a number.
Second, what if this isn't really about public health but rather about demonising the whole idea of combustion products (not talking about smoking here). Look at how many people are gluten-sensitive now. Is it really because of gluten, or the awareness of gluten sensitivity? Of course, the syndrome is real, but which came first, the chicken or the egg? Everything in life is harmful. So what's his real goal? I suspect this policy is just a sneaky way to make wood burning, coal, barbecues, diesel heaters, etc. socially unacceptable. After introducing this policy, I suspect that all of a sudden your neighbours will become allergic to your barbecues, will have panic attacks and admit themselves to hospital upon the slightest whiff of a wood fire, and before long you won't be able to get charcoal or dry wood in the shops. The main beneficiaries will end up being electricity companies.
Third, it's easy to grow tobacco, dry it and sell it. Nice black market sideline for anyone who's got a garden.
Unfortunately, as people get older they get respiratory problems. The ministry of truth will reduce the importance of their having worked with asbestos or whatever on the ships in the past, and will focus on the rollups they used to smoke. This idea will be reinforced whenever someone hears their ageing driver or mechanic hack up a dry cough. There will be a lot of ammunition supporting this proposal. I'm fundamentally against it because this is government overreach. The government is not responsible for individual health and lifestyle choices which end up affecting just the individual. The government is there for defence and to create conditions making it possible to have a functioning society. This is NHS tyranny. |
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virus |
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virus World Chat Champion
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Howling Terror |
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Howling Terror Super Spammer
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Posted: 00:28 - 05 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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Aye it's addictive, damaging, costly to maintain and repair. <<<Nice setup line there.
Ban it, ban sweets n fatty foods. Bin booze whilst we're being daft.
It's not like nobody knows how moreish smoking is or how smelly it is.
Everyone knows that if you smoke long enough you'll be a gasper going up a few stairs.
A non-smoking policy in buildings and vehicles make practical sense.
Asking someone to not smoke in your house is fine.
Was out watching the Tour de France go by and some lady complained about my smoke wafting by her. This after a half mile of cars, vans and motorbikes wafting by. I ignored her.
I no longer smoke because I'd pretty much smoked until I got fed up of it, plus listening to my lungs whine and wheeze each night...and the phlegm in the mornings....and throughout the day.
As for the different qualities of tobacco...It's smoke in your lungs...it will damage your lungs and make you smell.
The social side of toke-ing I haven't missed. I still meet up with my old tokers and it's upto them what they choose. If I want to get off my head there are still plenty of options.
Leave people be, you silly politicians. ____________________ Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project |
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rpsmith79 |
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rpsmith79 World Chat Champion
Joined: 31 Jan 2017 Karma :
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Posted: 07:12 - 05 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | I think it makes sense and as a former smoker, I think it would have been better if it was never allowed. Probably would never have started if you hadn't been able to smoke in pubs, clubs, cinemas etc. anyway. |
Same here, ex-smoker of 40 a day, (only got into it through peer-pressure) and believe this is a brilliant idea, and makes total sense, 99% of folk i know who smoke, got into it at a young (impressionable) age, if this idea makes that process harder and harder for youngsters to take up smoking year on year, then who would be against it
I don't have kids, but if i did i would do everything in my power to not let them start smoking, not least the health issues around it, but the sheer cost too ____________________ Current Bike: Honda CG125 ES4 // Honda CB600FS Hornet // Triumph Street Triple R |
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rpsmith79 |
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rpsmith79 World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 07:53 - 05 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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Yes, I think a lot of people read the title but not the link.
They aren't proposing to force people to stop smoking. They are trying to force people to not start. This law wouldn't really effect anyone who hadn't started smoking underage and was already obtaining tobacco by illegal means.
I can't imagine there are many smokers who would pass up the opportunity to go back in time and stop themselves having that first fag, ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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that_impulse_guy |
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that_impulse_guy Scooby Slapper
Joined: 07 Mar 2023 Karma :
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Posted: 09:36 - 05 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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people who do modelling on when other people die, so that they can work out the correct rates for pension contributions etc...were a bit upset when vaping started to go mainstream around post-2012....a whole bunch of people that were meant to die early may no longer die early and will cost them money. I suspect something similar may happen now. There's always repercussions.
My own view is that if the government was not entrusted with my (free?) healthcare, then they would have no right or say in the matter...so blame the NHS...because its always about money...money..and more money.
I'd personally prefer it to a an individual choice. this "thing" exists...do it or not...
theres a yellow Lamborghini...its made...buy it or dont.
whatevers....some people benefit from smoking (not their lungs, or their physical health) but you can see peeps have a minor fender bender and immediately go grab a fag because it ("calms them...")...let them be...if its a placebo/mental/whatever...thats their dummy and they can use it how they want to. ____________________ Gone: Yamaha DT50lc, Suzuki DR500, Suzuki A100, Kawasaki z250ltd, RD350YPVS, Suzuki DR Big, Kawasaki AR125, Kawasaki KMX200, Suzuki GS1000S, Katana 1100, GS550M, Suzuki RGV250
Now: Suzuki GSX400X, Suzuki RF900R, NS400R |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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that_impulse_guy |
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that_impulse_guy Scooby Slapper
Joined: 07 Mar 2023 Karma :
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Posted: 10:54 - 05 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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i read it and understand it and know its based on the NZ model that Adern introduced.
I'm pointing out that theres a thing on this planet that "some" people find beneficial for their own reasons. Future peeps would not have access to this. Whether this is a good thing or a bad is our own choice to form an opinion about. Thats all. I'm not batting for either bloody side here. ____________________ Gone: Yamaha DT50lc, Suzuki DR500, Suzuki A100, Kawasaki z250ltd, RD350YPVS, Suzuki DR Big, Kawasaki AR125, Kawasaki KMX200, Suzuki GS1000S, Katana 1100, GS550M, Suzuki RGV250
Now: Suzuki GSX400X, Suzuki RF900R, NS400R |
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struan80 |
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struan80 World Chat Champion
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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rpsmith79 |
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rpsmith79 World Chat Champion
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Freddyfruitba... |
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Freddyfruitba... World Chat Champion
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Fat Angry Scotsman |
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Fat Angry Scotsman World Chat Champion
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grr666 |
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grr666 Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:16 - 05 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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I'm almost a year into quitting cigarettes with willpower alone. The cravings are long gone now. Now all I have
to do is lose the weight that quitting helped me to pile on. Jacking in beer will help with that but if it wasn't for
the pub then I'd never leave the house. But I hate being a fucking porker. ____________________ Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off. |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 17:17 - 05 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: |
Or are we campaigning for the right for people to START smoking? |
An individual can be a protege of the state, but is not the property of the state.
There are certain things I would never do, for example, dangerous sports. However, people have an absolute right to take them up if they have reached maturity and are of sound mind, and if their participation in those sports doesn't affect the welfare of anyone else but themselves.
If you join the dots here, it just doesn't add up celebrating someone taking a personal risk by climbing Everest at 18 (potentially deadly) and succeeding in coming back in one piece having achieved their (completely pointless and potentially injurious) goal, and then having a sad but heroic footnote on the BBC website when another 18 year old attempts the same but dies. Why is the goal of climbing Everest accepted as a valid personal choice and an expression of personal will in the first place? Because he put nobody at risk but himself. Extend this to the Isle of Man TT (I dislike that whole cult around the TT). Do you think racers should be allowed to race the Isle of Man TT? Similarly, religious cults performing self-flagellation. All they do is harm themselves - there is no way to get healthier by practising self-flagellation. There is absolutely no benefit in harming the body, but there is no basis for forbidding others to do it either.
We can explain the way these things have been tolerated to date by saying that these are libertarian principles, i.e. that the individual is free to take personal risks and injure themselves, as long as it doesn't hurt others. However, when you qualify this freedom with respect to smoking, specifically, you're revising this principle. From that point, it just doesn't make sense any more to allow any of the other foregoing activities. The only way it could possibly make sense to protect an individual's cardiovascular health from themselves is if you're preparing people to be conscripted in a war (which is really bad for health). Obviously, that's not what's happening here. It's not, is it. |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 18:57 - 05 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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Ok. I'll reposte by saying we don't allow people to ride motorcycles on the road or the track without first undergoing training and/or demonstrating a basic level of competance. Be that state mandated or within the control of the organisers.
I think self flagellation within a cult setting would after a certain point become actionable either under mental health or aiding and abetting laws.
Of course, none of these other potentially self-harming activities generate the same degree of dependance that nicotine does. Once you've started, it is very difficult to stop again if you want to get off the bus.
I would imagine giving up climbing Everst would be quite easy once you started, it's not going to force you to keep climbing against your own will and better judgement until you die. Whereas after a point very near the start, the choice to be a smoker or not is mostly removed. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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to v or not to v |
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to v or not to v World Chat Champion
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Posted: 19:07 - 05 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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chipping away at your freedoms one piece at a time. ____________________ current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
its old and fat, but its a damned good ride. the bikes not bad either. |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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